14:32:54 I'm going to introduce our 14:32:58 executive director, Jorge L. Baron 14:32:59 He's been the 14:33:01 executive director since 2008. 14:33:02 He's going to share a little 14:33:03 bit about the background and 14:33:05 introduce my colleagues. Thank 14:33:09 you so much, 14:33:12 Jorge. Thank you 14:33:13 Rebecca and thank you for 14:33:14 joining us. It is great to see 14:33:15 the high number of people 14:33:16 attending the sessions and I'm 14:33:17 sure there are more watching 14:33:18 this and some of you are 14:33:20 watching later on. So we 14:33:22 appreciate taking the time to 14:33:25 talk about a very serious topic 14:33:27 about immigration tension and 14:33:28 some of the work we're doing 14:33:29 specifically at the northwest 14:33:33 -- the detention center ICE 14:33:34 and 14:33:35 northwest ICE processing 14:33:39 centered. I 14:33:42 I'm honored to be 14:33:44 part of this and I have been 14:33:45 Executive Director for laugh 14:33:47 last 12 years many as some of 14:33:48 you know, the issue of 14:33:49 immigration detention is close 14:33:51 to my heart because I started 14:33:53 my time in the Tacoma Office 14:33:56 where we'll be joined in a 14:33:58 minute by my colleagues so 14:33:59 started my career working with 14:34:02 people who are detained at the 14:34:04 Northwest Detention Center and 14:34:08 you know have seen how the 14:34:11 place has grown over the years 14:34:14 and understand very intensely 14:34:16 how you know bad the situation 14:34:19 is there and unfortunately 14:34:21 despite all of the -- as we'll 14:34:22 talk about today, despite the 14:34:26 fact that you know the pandemic 14:34:28 is -- has stopped so many 14:34:30 things in the lives of the 14:34:32 community or around the country 14:34:33 and around the world, 14:34:34 immigration detention 14:34:35 unfortunately continues and 14:34:36 we'll talk a little bit about 14:34:38 the specific impact of the 14:34:40 pandemic is having on people 14:34:41 inside the detention center and 14:34:43 the concerns we have about the 14:34:44 situation there. But before we 14:34:47 go further I happen to 14:34:48 introduce two of my colleagues 14:34:51 that are going to be answering 14:34:53 questions and sharing 14:34:54 information because they work 14:34:56 directly with people at the 14:34:58 immigration detention center. 14:34:59 First I want to introduce my 14:35:01 colleague, Tim Warden-Hertz, 14:35:03 who is the Directing Attorney 14:35:05 in the Tacoma Office. Tim, 14:35:05 would you like to share a 14:35:07 little bit about yourself? 14:35:09 » Tim: Sure. Thanks, Jorge. 14:35:11 I'm Tim Warden-Hertz. I have 14:35:13 been the director attorney for 14:35:16 the office down here in Tacoma 14:35:18 for a bit over six and a half 14:35:21 years and with anywhere seven 14:35:25 NWIRP for 14:35:25 search and 14:35:27 a half. I was working in 14:35:28 Massachusetts before coming 14:35:32 here and it has been a lot of 14:35:34 changes over the years but 14:35:37 certainly the changes and 14:35:38 unfortunately I think sort of 14:35:40 lack of changes in some ways 14:35:44 has certainly been a major 14:35:48 issue for us in our work and 14:35:50 sort of lives of our clients in 14:35:52 detention and I'm excited to 14:35:53 share a little bit about that 14:35:54 today. 14:35:56 » Jorge: Great, thank you, 14:35:57 Tim. Also joining us is Lesly 14:35:59 Avila, who is one of our staff 14:36:01 attorneys in the Tacoma Office. 14:36:02 Lesly. 14:36:03 » Lesly: Hi, everyone. My 14:36:07 name is Lesly. I am 14:36:11 with NWIRP. 14:36:12 I have been working here about 14:36:14 a year. I'm excited what we do. 14:36:15 I did been working with team 14:36:16 clients my whole time here. I 14:36:18 have definitely even though it 14:36:20 has only been one year I have 14:36:22 definitely seen the difference 14:36:24 before COVID and now on just 14:36:25 the type -- the work that we do 14:36:27 and how it has been affecting 14:36:29 us at the detention center. 14:36:30 » Jorge: Great. Thank you so 14:36:32 much. And, you know, of course, 14:36:35 you know, most of you who are 14:36:38 joining today are close friend 14:36:40 of northwest human rights 14:36:42 project and know our work 14:36:44 encompasses a lot of different 14:36:46 areas of work both in terms of 14:36:47 our direct are legal services 14:36:49 work and our systematic 14:36:50 advocacy. But the reason we 14:36:52 wanted to focus on immigration 14:36:53 detention is because as we 14:36:54 talked about the intensity of 14:36:58 the issue and how the impact is 14:37:00 being felt today. But before 14:37:02 we talked a little bit about 14:37:04 right this moment we wanted to 14:37:05 give a little bit of a broader 14:37:07 picture of a context and a 14:37:10 little bit of historical 14:37:11 background about how we got 14:37:14 here in terms of 14:37:16 this immigration detention 14:37:17 system. You happen to invite 14:37:19 Tim to talk a little bit about 14:37:21 what -- the overview of how 14:37:23 this history has developed, how 14:37:25 do we end up here with this 14:37:27 massive system of immigration 14:37:28 detention in the United States. 14:37:30 Tim, could you share a little 14:37:31 bit about that? 14:37:33 » Tim: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks. 14:37:35 I guess first let's start with 14:37:38 a little bit of interaction. 14:37:41 So we're going to put up a poll 14:37:43 and if folks want to take a 14:37:46 guess on sort of 1980, how many 14:37:48 people were locked up by 14:37:49 immigration and had to sleep 14:37:50 inside of a detention center on 14:37:54 an average night? So 14:37:57 put in 14:37:58 your best guess many there is 14:37:59 no prize. 14:38:00 » Rebecca: That is great. We 14:38:04 have about 30% of folks voted. 14:38:05 Wonderful. You're all so great 14:38:06 doing this voting thing. I'm 14:38:07 going to leave it open for 14:38:09 about five more seconds and 14:38:13 then I'll show the results. 14:38:24 Half of you got the right 14:38:26 answer. A little over 1600 14:38:28 people were locked up in the 14:38:32 country on an average night. 14:38:35 And -- by immigration in 1980. 14:38:37 And, so, let's -- we'll try to 14:38:38 fill in the gaps. Let's look 14:38:41 at in 2019 are, we'll put up 14:38:44 another poll. In 2019, what 14:38:46 was that same number for 14:38:49 the country on an 14:38:51 average night? Let's see what 14:38:52 folks end up with. 14:38:53 » Rebecca: Y'all are doing 14:38:55 great on this. I'm going to 14:38:56 leave it open for about five 14:39:00 more seconds. 14:39:02 » Tim: This is nice because 14:39:04 you do all the work. I just 14:39:08 sit here. So folks 14:39:09 -- even 14:39:11 sort of more I think seeing 14:39:13 where I was going with it but 14:39:17 the number is 49,400 for 2019. 14:39:19 Although actually in the 14:39:21 beginning or sort of the fall 14:39:24 of 2019, that's like fiscal 14:39:25 years but the fall of 2019 it 14:39:28 was up to over 50,000. It was 14:39:31 like up to 55,000 people who 14:39:33 are locked up around the 14:39:35 country. You know, it's kind 14:39:36 of remarkable. You think about 14:39:38 that number from 1980 that 14:39:42 around the country there were 14:39:43 1600 people who were locked up 14:39:46 and were sleeping on an average 14:39:48 night inside a detention center. 14:39:49 That is about the number that 14:39:52 had been locked up at the 14:39:53 Northwest Detention Center in 14:39:56 Tacoma. The detention center 14:39:58 in Tacoma houses -- it can lock 14:40:02 up a maximum of 14:40:04 1575 people, 14:40:05 community members, and you know 14:40:07 so those numbers are pretty 14:40:08 close. It was a national 14:40:11 number in 1980. The growth in 14:40:12 immigration detention has been 14:40:16 traumatic since that time 14:40:19 and 14:40:21 it has been different by a few 14:40:23 different things that changes 14:40:25 logs many 1996 there was a 14:40:26 change in immigration law that 14:40:28 did a lot of terrible thing for 14:40:29 immigrants but it included a 14:40:30 huge expansion of what is 14:40:32 called mandatory detention. 14:40:33 Where instead of people being 14:40:35 able to have an opportunity to 14:40:36 be released and fight their 14:40:39 cases outside of detention, 14:40:41 they weren't allowed to even 14:40:42 seek release from Immigration 14:40:44 Judge and were stuck inside 14:40:46 detention for a the length of 14:40:47 their case. That really 14:40:49 dramatically increased the 14:40:50 length of detention. Through 14:40:53 the growth in immigration 14:40:54 detention through the years 14:40:55 another major trend had been, 14:40:58 you know, a sort of shift in 14:41:00 detention to private detention. 14:41:05 So rather than either using 14:41:06 ICE run facilities where, you 14:41:09 know, immigration and customs 14:41:12 enforcement, the immigration, 14:41:14 Federal agency, whether they're 14:41:15 sort of running the facility 14:41:17 themselves or they sometimes 14:41:19 use county facilities and rent 14:41:20 out space at county facilities. 14:41:23 That used to be a much higher 14:41:24 percentage of the work of the 14:41:26 detention population of folks 14:41:27 detained around the country. 14:41:29 That is really shifted 14:41:30 dramatically. I think the 14:41:32 numbers now are something like 14:41:33 70% of the people in the 14:41:36 country are 14:41:39 locked up in private detention 14:41:40 centers even here in Tacoma 14:41:43 whereie company called the GEO 14:41:46 group, one of the two 14:41:48 largest detention sensor in the 14:41:50 country, they run the one here 14:41:52 in Tacoma and making dramatic 14:41:54 profits off of locking people 14:41:56 up and that, you know, 14:41:58 plays a role in, you know, in 14:42:00 lobbying money then going to 14:42:03 politicians to continue the 14:42:07 growth of immigration detention. 14:42:08 I think there is -- I could 14:42:10 sort of go on for is along time 14:42:12 talking about detention and I 14:42:14 mean, it has grown, you know, 14:42:15 there was a lot of people 14:42:17 detained under the Obama 14:42:18 administration many I think 14:42:19 that we were looking at by the 14:42:23 end of the Obama administration 14:42:25 there was something like 30,000 14:42:27 people detained on an average 14:42:29 night. But again, that number 14:42:31 has grown dramatically under 14:42:33 this administration up to over 14:42:34 50,000 people a night. This is 14:42:36 all done, you know, with 14:42:38 congressional funding. This is 14:42:39 taxpayer money that is going to 14:42:41 do that. The funding just in 14:42:45 the last few years for 14:42:47 detention has risen from 14:42:49 something like $1.8 billion a 14:42:52 year up to $3.1 billion a year. 14:42:55 So the money for it has 14:42:56 dramatically grown many that is, 14:43:00 you know, congressional Kateing 14:43:02 money for this money. 14:43:04 Congress plays a role in 14:43:05 controlling detention and play 14:43:08 a role in reducing it, too. 14:43:10 » Jorge: Great. I just want 14:43:12 to remind you that there are 14:43:13 space for questions in the chat 14:43:15 so if you have questions, feel 14:43:16 free to put them in there and 14:43:18 I'll be, you know, putting them 14:43:22 to our panelists as we go along. 14:43:23 And thank you for that overview, 14:43:25 Tim. I think one thing that 14:43:27 is really important as we talk 14:43:29 a broader context is also of 14:43:31 course to center this 14:43:32 conversation of the fact that 14:43:34 we're talking about individual 14:43:34 human beings that are going 14:43:37 through in system and, so, I 14:43:40 wanted to ask Lesly, start with 14:43:42 Lesly to just invite you, Lesly, 14:43:44 to share a little bit about 14:43:46 what would -- what would the 14:43:47 experience of somebody who end 14:43:48 up in immigration detention 14:43:51 center and immigration 14:43:53 detention especially in Tacoma 14:43:54 for example look like, how 14:43:56 would they end up there and 14:43:58 what would it look like, what 14:44:01 would their, you know, 14:44:02 detention time there during -- 14:44:05 you know, we use the word 14:44:06 "detention" but it is really 14:44:08 incarceration, right, they're 14:44:10 essentially in what the context 14:44:11 we consider a prison and the 14:44:14 reason we use the label of 14:44:15 detention center it is 14:44:17 considered civil. It is not a 14:44:19 criminal punishment. But 14:44:20 anybody who looks at this space 14:44:22 I think it is essentially a 14:44:24 prison, right? So what -- what 14:44:25 can you tell us a little bit 14:44:27 about what experience of 14:44:29 someone that you worked with 14:44:31 looks like for that journey 14:44:32 into the detention center and 14:44:34 through the detention center? 14:44:36 » Lesly: Yes. So, for 14:44:38 example, one of the ways people 14:44:40 end up at the Tacoma detention 14:44:42 center is if they're asylum 14:44:45 seekers. Asylum seekers right 14:44:47 now are being placed in 14:44:48 detention as soon as they are 14:44:50 here. We recently had a client 14:44:52 who was a young woman from 14:44:54 Venezuela. She was a student 14:44:55 there. She wanted to be a 14:44:59 reporter. She had 14:45:01 her company 14:45:02 did not align with the 14:45:04 municipal government. As an 14:45:06 activist, she was then 14:45:09 persecuted and had to flee. 14:45:10 She traveled through South 14:45:12 America and when she arrived at 14:45:15 the US Mexico border, she 14:45:18 went through what the US -- the 14:45:21 US policy for metering and 14:45:23 before an asylum seeker would 14:45:25 be able to arrive at the US 14:45:28 border, ask for asylum, have a 14:45:31 a credible [NAME] 14:45:34 interview and likely be paroled. 14:45:36 My client would have likely 14:45:38 been paroled. But now she was 14:45:40 forced to wait at the US Mexico 14:45:42 border. She was given a number, 14:45:44 placed on a list and forced to 14:45:45 wait possibly months before she 14:45:46 was able to come into the US 14:45:48 and seek asylum and start that 14:45:51 process. In this case, she did 14:45:53 not feel safe in Mexico at all. 14:45:56 She came into the US. So she 14:45:58 crossed at the southern border. 14:46:00 But through ICE detention she 14:46:02 ended up here in Tacoma. That 14:46:05 is how she became my client. 14:46:09 As my client, 14:46:10 we 14:46:11 tried to have a bond hearing 14:46:13 and she lost because she was an 14:46:15 asylum seeker and she did not 14:46:17 have the US ties that the judge 14:46:19 was looking for many because we 14:46:21 lost we tend with her case. 14:46:22 Because she -- and she actually 14:46:24 had a very strong case. She 14:46:26 was able to win her asylum 14:46:28 claim and now reunited with her 14:46:31 family but this is a clear new 14:46:34 process of asylum seekers being 14:46:35 put in detention and how a lot 14:46:38 of them are now at the Tacoma 14:46:41 detention center. 14:46:42 » Jorge: Thank you, Lesly. 14:46:43 That touches on one of the 14:46:44 questions that Fernando asked 14:46:46 when we were talking earlier 14:46:48 about the number of people 14:46:49 actually in detention center 14:46:52 inside the US and Fernando is 14:46:53 pointing out there is actually 14:46:55 kind of another group that is 14:46:57 not included in that count that 14:47:00 are people who as Lesly mentioned 14:47:02 are blocked from entering and 14:47:04 who have been, you know, this 14:47:06 was -- you know, as you heard, 14:47:08 even before the pandemic there 14:47:09 was, you know, thousands of 14:47:11 people, tens of thousands of 14:47:12 people likely. There is not a 14:47:13 real good number the way that 14:47:15 we have numbers for the people 14:47:16 in the immigration detention 14:47:17 system for the people who are 14:47:19 pushed back across the border 14:47:20 and still many of them 14:47:22 thousands of them still remain 14:47:23 as of this moment waiting for 14:47:25 the opportunity to be able to 14:47:27 seek protection here in the US. 14:47:29 And so the numbers that we were 14:47:32 sharing to answer Fernando's 14:47:33 question do not account for 14:47:34 that for those people who are 14:47:36 still trying to be able 14:47:40 to come in. Can -- Tim, can 14:47:41 you share a little bit about 14:47:42 the experience because in 14:47:45 addition to the folks who are 14:47:48 asylum seekers we also have 14:47:50 folks who have been long time 14:47:51 residents here in the US and 14:47:52 still end up in detention. Can 14:47:54 you share a little bit what a 14:47:56 situation like that how 14:47:57 somebody could end up in that 14:47:59 situation like that? 14:48:01 » Tim: Yeah, sure. I can 14:48:05 talk about one of my clients, 14:48:06 V 14:48:07 un. He had lived in 14:48:09 Washington for many 14:48:11 years. I think about 15 years. 14:48:13 He would come over to the 14:48:15 United States from Vietnam when 14:48:18 he was a teenager. He -- yeah. 14:48:20 He had gone to some school in 14:48:23 the US and then had gotten 14:48:25 a job. Was working when he was 14:48:29 a young man he had you know 14:48:31 experimented with drugs several 14:48:34 times. Never had any criminal 14:48:37 problems then. Had several 14:48:38 kids with a partner. 14:48:42 They ended up separating. And 14:48:44 then later on he had been 14:48:46 working and he was fishing in 14:48:49 Alaska most seasons. Would 14:48:51 come back and ended up getting 14:48:54 addicted to methamphetamines 14:48:55 and getting convicted for 14:48:58 possession of methamphetamine. 14:49:00 And because of that -- so even 14:49:03 though he had had a green card, 14:49:07 his whole adult life, he 14:49:07 for 14:49:09 certain types of convictions, 14:49:11 even people with green cards 14:49:13 can be -- can -- the government 14:49:16 can try to deport them. It's 14:49:17 not necessarily related 14:49:19 actually to sort of how series 14:49:21 the offense is but rather sort 14:49:23 of how the immigration laws 14:49:25 interact with the conviction 14:49:28 that someone gets. And, so, 14:49:31 after he had been convicted and 14:49:35 served a short time in jail, 14:49:37 immigration picked him up from 14:49:39 the jail actually on Christmas 14:49:42 every of 2015. So instead of 14:49:43 spending Christmas with his 14:49:44 family, which he would have 14:49:47 done, he ended up at the 14:49:49 Northwest Detention Center. 14:49:52 And fortunately we believe he 14:49:53 was eligible for something 14:49:55 called LPR cancellation or sort 14:49:56 of essentially it is a way in 14:49:59 the law to ask the judge for a 14:50:00 second chance. You say I have 14:50:02 convictions that could lead to 14:50:03 deportation. But I have all 14:50:05 these other positive things 14:50:06 that should give you a chance 14:50:08 to be able to stay in the 14:50:09 United States. And, so, you 14:50:11 know, he went forward with his 14:50:12 case. But the government 14:50:14 actually raised saying that 14:50:15 just the fact that he had 14:50:18 admitted, you know, Ed he had 14:50:20 he had talked 14:50:22 about his prior use of drugs 14:50:24 and trying to come clean how he 14:50:25 really wants to stay clean and 14:50:27 to be able to get back with his 14:50:28 family and working and all the 14:50:30 good things that he had been 14:50:34 doing. And yeah. The ICE 14:50:34 said 14:50:35 he was not even 14:50:37 eligible to ask for is asecond 14:50:38 chance because of that that 14:50:40 admission of drug use. We ended 14:50:41 up taking the case on appeal 14:50:43 went up to the 9th circuit and 14:50:47 finally were able to get him 14:50:47 and 14:50:48 then the case got 14:50:50 sent back down. But during 14:50:53 this whole time Mr. Vun was 14:50:55 detained for a total over three 14:50:57 and a half years. He had two 14:50:59 little kids. Actually for 14:51:00 several years of that time they 14:51:02 transferred him from the 14:51:04 detention center in Tacoma. 14:51:05 His family is from Olympia. 14:51:08 They transferred him to Alabama. 14:51:10 So he was away, you know, he 14:51:11 could not even see his kids at 14:51:15 all in person for several years. 14:51:18 And yeah, finally about a year 14:51:21 ago he -- we finally had the 14:51:22 final court hearing in front of 14:51:25 the Tacoma Immigration Judge. 14:51:26 He was grand a second chance 14:51:29 and he was released and able to 14:51:31 reunite with his kids, his Mom 14:51:33 and his family and that was a 14:51:34 really great moment. But, you 14:51:38 know, three and a half years 14:51:40 three and a half years locked 14:51:42 up from his family. That is 14:51:43 another option. Even folks who 14:51:45 had green card for so, so long 14:51:47 and have been in a part of the 14:51:49 community for so long, you know, 14:51:50 even they face getting picked 14:51:52 up by ICE and had the 14:51:55 and the possibility 14:51:57 of being depoured and detained 14:51:58 for is avery long time. 14:52:00 » Jorge: Thank you, all. I 14:52:01 have a question. Danny had a 14:52:02 question that I think this 14:52:05 might be a good time to tackle. 14:52:09 When -- and either you, Tim or 14:52:11 Lesly, whoever wants to tackle 14:52:12 this one. What are the 14:52:13 conditions -- when we talk 14:52:15 about people being detained, 14:52:17 you talked, Tim, someone being 14:52:19 detained for three and a half 14:52:21 years and, Lesly, you talked 14:52:22 about your client being 14:52:23 detained for almost a year many 14:52:26 what is it like? I mean 14:52:28 obviously we here a lot from 14:52:29 client -- what do you hear from 14:52:30 clients about what their 14:52:32 condition are like and what -- 14:52:34 you know, we hear of course in 14:52:36 the press a lot about that. 14:52:36 Your experience of what you 14:52:38 hear from client about the 14:52:40 condition of people being 14:52:44 inside? 14:52:46 Do you want to start, 14:52:47 Lesly? 14:52:48 » Lesly: Yes, I can start. 14:52:51 So I think, you know, we hear a 14:52:53 lot of different things with 14:52:55 clients, I think. When I first 14:52:56 started a lot of the things 14:52:59 that are a concern are like 14:53:01 their meals, their dietary 14:53:04 restrictions, medical care. 14:53:05 Some of our clients have 14:53:06 reported that they don't get 14:53:08 the medication that they 14:53:11 required. For example, I had 14:53:13 type 1 diabetic patient -- 14:53:16 client who required insulin and 14:53:18 he was not able to get that 14:53:21 from the detention center due 14:53:23 to miscommunication about what 14:53:25 type of diabetes he had. You 14:53:28 know, they also can work but it 14:53:31 is a pay of one dollar a day 14:53:34 which we also do not think that 14:53:38 is correct in any way. 14:53:39 So I 14:53:42 think with COVID I thinking the 14:53:44 conditions have worsened. A 14:53:47 lot of our clients have had 14:53:50 many -- have a lot of the high 14:53:52 risk factors. I had a client 14:53:54 who had both diabetes and high 14:53:55 blood pressure and he was very, 14:53:57 very, very worried for himself. 14:53:59 He had a lot of -- he had been 14:54:00 in the US for a long time. He 14:54:02 had a lots of kids here. He 14:54:04 was the primary support for his 14:54:07 children. He was detained for 14:54:11 a couple of months and 14:54:11 and 14:54:13 thankfully we got him out as 14:54:14 quickly as possible. In that 14:54:16 time his health was 14:54:18 deteriorating. So we did -- we 14:54:21 tried a parole request 14:54:22 explaining the high risk 14:54:24 factors and it was denied. We 14:54:26 tried bond and it was also 14:54:30 denied. And he like 14:54:31 he was in 14:54:32 one of the pods that was 14:54:34 quarantined for a while and he 14:54:36 was tested and thankfully that 14:54:38 whole pod was tested negative. 14:54:40 The but the fear and like the 14:54:43 inability to be free in that 14:54:44 space. Especially when we're 14:54:45 supposed to be socially 14:54:47 distancing and they can't 14:54:49 because it is so crowded. 14:54:50 They're not releasing people. 14:54:54 So I think the conditions have 14:54:56 worsened right now but we're 14:54:58 still trying to do the best 14:55:01 that we can for our clients. 14:55:02 » Jorge: That is great. 14:55:04 Thank you, Lesly. And I 14:55:05 appreciate we're getting some 14:55:07 great questions on the chat. I 14:55:08 appreciate it. We're going to 14:55:09 start trying to tackle as many 14:55:12 as we can. One thread that I 14:55:13 saw from a couple of questions 14:55:14 that I wanted to clarify 14:55:16 because folks asked about the 14:55:17 issue of children in 14:55:19 immigration detention. So just 14:55:21 wanted to clarify that 14:55:23 there are children who end up 14:55:26 in immigration detention in one 14:55:30 sense which is that right now 14:55:32 immigration has what they refer 14:55:36 to as family detention centers 14:55:38 where children with their 14:55:41 parents are held in immigration 14:55:43 detention centers in Texas and 14:55:44 Pennsylvania is where they're 14:55:47 currently held. So children, 14:55:49 you know, actual underage 14:55:51 children are not held -- 14:55:52 they're not supposed to be held 14:55:55 I guess I should say at the 14:55:56 Northwest Detention Center. I 14:55:58 can tell you we had clients who 14:56:00 we believed were underage who 14:56:02 ICE claimed were over 18 who 14:56:04 have been detained because ICE 14:56:07 ICE 14:56:08 claimed they were adults but it 14:56:10 is not generally policy to hold 14:56:11 people in immigration detention. 14:56:13 I will say that there is -- has 14:56:15 been a pattern of children who 14:56:17 arrived at the border who are 14:56:18 unaccompanied around who get 14:56:20 pleased with the ultimately 14:56:22 placed with the office of 14:56:23 refugee resettlement and 14:56:26 when they turn 18 they can -- 14:56:27 the day literally that they 14:56:29 turn 18 they can be transferred 14:56:30 into adult immigration 14:56:33 detention center. So you know 14:56:36 it does happen that we have 14:56:39 very young people in 14:56:39 immigration detention centers 14:56:41 but in Tacoma, you know, 14:56:43 generally we -- you know, 14:56:45 except for those 14:56:47 exception I mentioned when ICE 14:56:48 had somebody they thought was 14:56:49 18, children are generally not 14:56:52 detained there. And, so, that 14:56:53 is to address some of the 14:56:57 questions about children in 14:56:58 immigration detention. Can we 14:57:00 -- Lesly, you were talking a 14:57:01 little bit about the COVID 14:57:03 situation in the detention 14:57:04 center. I wanted to ask Tim to 14:57:06 talk a little bit about that 14:57:07 and about you know we talked 14:57:09 about the concerns that we have 14:57:13 about COVID and maybe, Tim, if 14:57:14 you could give a little bit of 14:57:16 an update on some of the work 14:57:17 that we have been doing precisely 14:57:20 to tackle that issue of the 14:57:22 concerns that we have around 14:57:23 COVID and the impact it could 14:57:26 have on people in detention. 14:57:27 » Tim: That's right. We have 14:57:30 -- from the very sort of very 14:57:32 beginning of the pandemic have 14:57:36 been concerned about our 14:57:37 clients at the immigration 14:57:39 detention and everyone at the 14:57:40 detention center and the 14:57:42 pandemic. Medical experts 14:57:44 around the country have been 14:57:46 clear that prisons and 14:57:48 detention centers, you know, in 14:57:50 closed confined in-door spaces 14:57:53 are particularly dangerous for 14:57:55 folks with this pandemic. And, 14:57:59 so, you know, we filed -- I 14:58:00 the 14:58:02 sort of first sort of 14:58:04 case in the country pushing for 14:58:06 release of folks who had 14:58:10 medical asort of vulnerabilities 14:58:14 to COVID 19 14:58:15 and so filed that 14:58:17 suit. That case is still 14:58:19 pending. We have not forced 14:58:21 the release of those folks; 14:58:23 although, out of the nine 14:58:25 initial plaintiffs in this case, 14:58:27 I think six of them have been 14:58:30 released at this point. And, 14:58:32 then, we followed that up with 14:58:34 actually a class-action case 14:58:36 for all medically vulnerable 14:58:38 people at the detention center. 14:58:41 That case also remains pending. 14:58:43 The judge at this point has not 14:58:45 ordered the release of those 14:58:46 who are medically vulnerable. 14:58:48 But that case, you know, we 14:58:50 continue to fight that case 14:58:51 around the country. Some sorts 14:58:53 have ordered release of folks 14:58:55 who are medically vulnerable 14:58:58 and other judges haven't. One 14:59:00 of the things that we have -- I 14:59:01 mean, the fact that we brought 14:59:05 this suit while we remain, you 14:59:07 know, remain steadfast in 14:59:09 believing that folks should be 14:59:11 released. There is no safe way 14:59:14 to detain folks through this 14:59:16 pandemic. We believe sort of 14:59:17 all the detention centers but 14:59:18 particularly here in this 14:59:21 pandemic but what -- what this 14:59:23 -- some of the work that the 14:59:25 lawsuit has achieved is there 14:59:27 has been a massive testing 14:59:29 effort at the detention center 14:59:32 of one time testing and then 14:59:34 actually ICE has unisons the 14:59:36 beginning of this lawsuit has 14:59:38 really shifted their policies. 14:59:42 Is now testing everyone for -- 14:59:45 on entry 14:59:46 to the facility so they're 14:59:48 actually offering COVID testing 14:59:51 as they are detained at the 14:59:53 Tacoma facility. That means 14:59:56 that there is a little bit more 14:59:58 sort of accountability and 14:59:59 actually those changes have ended 15:00:01 up -- they have spotted folks 15:00:05 who did have COVID 19 and so 15:00:06 you know we hope that that 15:00:08 continues to mean that there is 15:00:10 not a major outbreak at the 15:00:12 detention center. But we also 15:00:14 fear with guards coming in and 15:00:15 out and many people who 15:00:16 interact and still interacting 15:00:17 with the community who -- where 15:00:19 the number is unfortunately for 15:00:22 the virus have grown that it is 15:00:24 just sort of a matter of time. 15:00:27 So a main concern but the fight 15:00:28 continues to make sure that 15:00:30 folks are released and they're 15:00:34 able to be saved. 15:00:37 » Jorge: Great. Thank you. 15:00:38 I muted myself because there 15:00:40 was a fire truck outside. 15:00:41 There is a few questions to 15:00:42 talk a little bit about the 15:00:45 process in the immigration 15:00:46 detention center. I think it 15:00:48 is time to talk a little bit 15:00:49 and Rebecca I'm going to ask, 15:00:51 we had this final poll here 15:00:53 just to see and I notice from 15:00:54 the earlier poll questions that 15:00:58 we got a pretty good audience 15:01:00 that knows the topics pretty 15:01:02 well. So this question that we 15:01:05 wanted to ask was around the 15:01:06 percentage of people in 15:01:07 immigration detention and so 15:01:09 we're going to focus on -- I 15:01:12 think the numbers nationally 15:01:14 are pretty close but at the 15:01:15 Northwest Detention Center, how 15:01:17 many people in detention have 15:01:18 access to legal 15:01:19 representation? How many 15:01:20 people get to go to court, 15:01:22 immigration court, at the 15:01:22 immigration detention and have 15:01:25 a lawyer by their side? If you 15:01:28 could tell us your estimate of 15:01:32 how many people -- what 15:01:33 percentage of people have 15:01:35 representation. Rebecca, you 15:01:36 let me know when you feel like 15:01:38 we have enough answers. 15:01:39 » Rebecca: Yeah, I'll leave 15:01:41 it open about five more second. 15:01:42 We have 70% of the folks that 15:01:44 voted. I'm going to end the 15:01:48 polling and share the results. 15:01:49 » Jorge: Yes. The majority 15:01:51 is correct. So the correct 15:01:55 answer is 10%. And this is 15:01:57 one 15:01:59 of the things that is z, you 15:02:01 know, among the many 15:02:03 distressing things about the 15:02:04 immigration detention system 15:02:06 and just generally the 15:02:06 immigration court system is the 15:02:08 fact there is no right to 15:02:10 appointed attorneys in 15:02:11 immigration court with one 15:02:12 minor exception I was actually 15:02:15 part of the work that that NERF 15:02:17 and some of our partners did 15:02:19 that had mental disabilities 15:02:22 that prevented -- there is a 15:02:24 right appointment of council 15:02:28 and those folks and the Franco 15:02:29 case to get to a point of 15:02:31 represent teation but generally 15:02:33 speaking, folks do not have 15:02:37 access to council. So Tim 15:02:38 , can 15:02:39 you talk a little bit about 15:02:43 what that means? And folks are 15:02:44 talking a little bit in the 15:02:45 chat. There are questions 15:02:47 about you know getting bond and 15:02:49 being able to get released from 15:02:51 detention. How does that -- 15:02:52 what does that look like when 15:02:53 you -- when you're talking 15:02:55 about a system where only 10% 15:02:59 of people have 15:03:00 ? 15:03:01 » Tim: That is a good 15:03:05 question. I think that it is 15:03:09 the immigration system is 15:03:11 remarkably complicated. 15:03:12 Folks, there is always an 15:03:13 experienced lawyer for ICE who 15:03:17 is there in court. 15:03:19 And so the 15:03:21 data, you know, really supports 15:03:22 the difference that it makes. 15:03:24 There is data from around the 15:03:26 , including from 15:03:28 New York, where New York City, 15:03:30 New York State guaranteed full 15:03:31 representation for New Yorkers 15:03:35 who end up in detention and so 15:03:36 there they actually are able to 15:03:38 study from almost no one having 15:03:39 lawyers to everyone having 15:03:41 lawyers and what the difference 15:03:43 is and there are folks without 15:03:45 representation. The success 15:03:46 rate. The ability of them to 15:03:49 get out of detention. They are 15:03:50 about 4% of the time they would 15:03:52 get released without 15:03:55 representation where it is with 15:03:56 representation, it was about 15:03:58 44% of the time. They were 11 15:04:01 times more likely successful 15:04:02 outcome on their case with 15:04:04 representation and so it makes 15:04:07 a huge difference. And I mean 15:04:11 we do a lot of work. Giving information 15:04:13 to folks who don't 15:04:15 have lawyers who are who were 15:04:16 at the detention center and we 15:04:19 try and we're trying to refer 15:04:21 to pro bono attorneys and our 15:04:22 own lawyers as much as we can 15:04:24 but our resources are limited. 15:04:28 And, you know, it is -- I mean 15:04:29 that is one of the very hard 15:04:32 parts of our job is sort of 15:04:33 knowing the difference that a 15:04:35 lawyer can make in someone's 15:04:36 case. Knowing that people -- 15:04:38 they would have a shot, right, 15:04:40 if they had a lawyer and times 15:04:42 not being able to provide that. 15:04:44 And so that is certainly I 15:04:46 think something that drives -- 15:04:47 that drives me and drives all 15:04:49 our staff in our work is really 15:04:53 trying to -- to -- where we can, 15:04:54 right, is to be different 15:04:56 folks and be able to make that 15:05:00 difference on those cases. 15:05:00 » Jorge: That is great. 15:05:02 Lesly, I come to you in one 15:05:04 second. But, Tim, one of the 15:05:05 questions somebody posed is, 15:05:06 if you look at the people who 15:05:07 are going through the 15:05:09 immigration detention system 15:05:10 like the folks that are right 15:05:11 now at the Northwest Detention 15:05:13 Center, what is your estimate 15:05:15 of how many of those people 15:05:16 ultimately end up being 15:05:19 deported? On average? 15:05:22 Do we have a good sense of that? 15:05:23 » Tim: That is a good 15:05:24 question. I don't have a full 15:05:25 sense but if we sort of 15:05:27 combined the two numbers that I 15:05:29 sort of just gave, right? So, 15:05:31 you know, those numbers are a 15:05:35 year or two old. I think 15:05:36 with the sort of 15:05:37 different ways that this 15:05:38 administration has kind of rigged 15:05:40 the system I think those 15:05:42 numbers probably have dropped. 15:05:43 But even using those numbers, 15:05:46 you know, 10% are represented 15:05:48 so, you know, 90% of the folks 15:05:50 are looking at a say 4% success 15:05:52 rate and pped the others are 15:05:55 looking at a 44%, it is not 15:05:57 that much more than, you know, 15:05:59 than four. We were talking 6%, 15:06:02 7% are going to have, you know, 15:06:05 a shot of being able to stay. 15:06:08 So, yeah, depressingly low 15:06:10 truthfully and so, yeah, I 15:06:14 think that is a major -- again, 15:06:16 you know, it both -- I think 15:06:17 both demonstrates the 15:06:19 importance of representation 15:06:22 but, also, sort of why 15:06:24 detention itself is one of the 15:06:26 reasons why detention itself is 15:06:29 so problematic. So, you know, 15:06:30 representation rates for people 15:06:31 who are not in detention, 15:06:34 nationally are something like 15:06:37 65%. 66%. So just because 15:06:39 folks if they're able to get 15:06:40 out, right, they're able to 15:06:43 support and get out and their 15:06:45 families and it is far cheaper 15:06:47 for private attorneys and for 15:06:49 non-profits to be able to 15:06:52 represent folks. But, also, 15:06:53 you have access to evidence. 15:06:55 You just have your ability to 15:06:56 actually fight your case and, 15:06:59 also, just the -- the drain on 15:07:01 someone. You know, I gave the 15:07:05 example of Mr. 15:07:07 Vun for three 15:07:09 and a half years detained and 15:07:11 that is an exception. But few 15:07:12 people are able to stay 15:07:13 detained in three and a half 15:07:14 years. To fight that case. To 15:07:16 stay in prison for three and a 15:07:17 half years as I mentioned 15:07:18 essentially prison, you know, 15:07:20 for three and a half years is 15:07:22 incredibly, incredibly 15:07:23 difficult. There is something 15:07:25 even I think what I had clients 15:07:26 tell me, there is something 15:07:28 almost harder about immigration 15:07:30 detention because there is no 15:07:32 fixed end. There isn't a 15:07:33 sentence. There is no sentence. 15:07:35 You don't have a year and then 15:07:35 you're going to be done or two 15:07:37 years. It is at some point, 15:07:39 right? At some point you may 15:07:41 be able to get out. You may 15:07:42 win. You may not. There is a 15:07:44 lot of uncertainty and so it is 15:07:48 very hard for folks to -- the 15:07:50 tension itself drives people to 15:07:52 take deportation orders and so 15:07:54 you know again, in addition to 15:07:56 all the reasons we've talked 15:07:58 about, the dangers and the 15:07:59 separation from families but 15:08:01 that's sort of the real damage 15:08:03 it does to people's ability to 15:08:05 have due process in their cases 15:08:07 and another reason why it is so 15:08:09 terrible. 15:08:10 » Jorge: Great. Thank you so 15:08:12 much, Tim. Lesly, could you 15:08:13 talk a little bit about your 15:08:16 experience of what having an 15:08:19 attorney means in terms of like 15:08:20 you know changing the outcome 15:08:21 for folks? There was a 15:08:22 question a little bit if you 15:08:24 could talk a little bit about 15:08:27 this as well of just how COVID 15:08:29 has changed kind of your 15:08:29 day-to-day work in terms of 15:08:30 being able to provide 15:08:32 assistance to people inside the 15:08:34 detention center. 15:08:37 » Lesly: Yes. So I think to 15:08:39 address our like the change in 15:08:41 our work, I think we have been 15:08:43 working from home for a couple 15:08:45 of months now. But the 15:08:47 detention center keeps -- still 15:08:49 has a lot of people detained. 15:08:50 Our clients are still there. 15:08:53 The Tacoma court never stopped. 15:08:56 So our work never stopped. It 15:08:59 just became a little bit harder 15:09:01 to adjust and not being able to 15:09:03 go to the detention center and 15:09:05 see our clients as available as 15:09:08 we had it before. Part of that 15:09:10 is, you know but, having better 15:09:11 communication, scheduling time 15:09:13 to talk to our clients. But 15:09:15 that also means it is a very 15:09:18 less -- it is a lot less 15:09:20 confidential. Clients are not 15:09:22 allowed to go into the training 15:09:24 client rooms. So it is -- made 15:09:25 us be a lot more creative in 15:09:27 the ways that we can best 15:09:29 represent our clients. 15:09:32 Everything is done telephonically 15:09:34 or via e-mail. So things have 15:09:36 changed. But our hardship is 15:09:38 nothing compared to our clients 15:09:42 work detained. In terms of how 15:09:44 representation matters, 15:09:47 particularly right now what I 15:09:49 see is that, you know, as a new 15:09:51 attorney, I'm still learning a 15:09:53 lot of the nuances of 15:09:54 immigration law. I have the 15:09:55 support of amazing attorneys 15:09:58 along with me. But if it is 15:10:00 difficult and it is complicated 15:10:03 for an attorney who has all the 15:10:05 resources of other attorneys 15:10:07 and the Internet and the 15:10:08 brilliance of the people around 15:10:12 me to not have that and be 15:10:14 detained and all of it that 15:10:16 comes with it is a big 15:10:18 difference. For example, 15:10:19 whether or not you're eligible 15:10:21 for relief. I have a client 15:10:24 who has a conviction and 15:10:25 immigration -- the immigration 15:10:27 charges make him pretty much 15:10:28 ineligible for anything. But 15:10:31 we were able to argue and say 15:10:33 that they don't match. So a 15:10:36 lot of critical analysis came 15:10:37 into play about comparing the 15:10:39 state law versus the Federal 15:10:42 Law and arguing against an 15:10:44 experienced prosecutor from the 15:10:46 government saying that we're 15:10:48 wrong and the judge saying that 15:10:50 we're wrong. But we were able 15:10:52 make the argument for our 15:10:54 client and now he's eligible 15:10:56 for asylum and constellation of 15:10:58 removal. Thing that he 15:10:59 wouldn't have -- it would have 15:11:00 been very hard if not 15:11:02 impossible for him to have been 15:11:04 able to do on his own. So I do 15:11:05 think representation makes a 15:11:08 big difference because now he 15:11:09 has at least two different 15:11:10 forms of relief that he's 15:11:14 eligible for as opposed to none. 15:11:17 » Jorge: Great. Thank you, 15:11:18 Lesly. And, you know, there is 15:11:22 a few questions that are asking 15:11:26 us about, you know, the 15:11:27 rationale behind the whole 15:11:30 system why does it exist and Kareem 15:11:34 put it what is behind the tale 15:11:36 is it money? I wanted to ask 15:11:37 you, Tim, to talk a little bit 15:11:39 about that. Why is it that we 15:11:41 have immigration detention in 15:11:42 this country and the way we 15:11:44 have and you know I think when 15:11:47 we hear the debate frequently 15:11:50 like, ICE or some politicians 15:11:52 will say, you know, we need to 15:11:54 have detention, right, because 15:11:55 people don't show up to court 15:11:58 or because of people are a 15:11:59 danger to community or 15:12:01 something like that. What is 15:12:05 the data say about those claims and 15:12:06 why do you think that we do 15:12:08 have this kind of massive 15:12:09 system? 15:12:10 » Tim: That is a good 15:12:13 question. A lot to it. I 15:12:16 think that -- I mean so I guess 15:12:17 first I'll sort of start with 15:12:19 some of the data on that and 15:12:21 then try to explain a little 15:12:22 bit about what I see as the 15:12:25 reasons. I think that so the 15:12:28 data is pretty darn compelling. 15:12:30 I think on folks getting 15:12:31 released from detention and 15:12:35 showing up to court, there is 15:12:35 , 15:12:37 you know, the 15:12:39 asylum seekers who were 15:12:41 released from detention attend 15:12:42 court hearings at something 15:12:45 like 98.5% of them attend court 15:12:48 hearings. Nearly 100% of folks 15:12:51 that data is similar for, you 15:12:54 know, families and mothers with 15:12:56 children who are released even 15:12:58 over long period of time 15:12:59 showing sort of greater than 15:13:02 90% attendance for folks for 15:13:03 asylum seekers going to their 15:13:05 hearings. And there is also -- 15:13:07 I mean even, you know, there is 15:13:08 also alternatives. 15:13:10 There have been several sort of 15:13:13 pilot projects of systems that 15:13:16 provide support for folks for, 15:13:18 you know, folks in immigration 15:13:20 proceeds and asylum seekers and 15:13:22 other folks going to 15:13:23 immigration court and they have 15:13:25 nearly 100% attendance rates. 15:13:26 Those numbers are actually even 15:13:27 higher and do approach 15:13:29 100% when folks are represented. 15:13:31 So that also, you know, plays a 15:13:33 role and folks again, I think 15:13:34 folks have a feeling when I 15:13:36 have a fair shake and I have a 15:13:38 lawyer, right, there is even 15:13:39 more reason to show up in 15:13:40 court. Even without that there 15:13:42 is very, very high attendance 15:13:44 rates. So I guess that is sort 15:13:45 of on the first question. I 15:13:47 think on the second one, on the 15:13:49 danger, I mean, I always, you 15:13:52 know, that question feels like 15:13:54 kind of a trick question. You 15:13:56 know, folks who h have had 15:13:58 contact with the criminal legal 15:14:00 system before they end up in 15:14:03 immigration detention. So my 15:14:07 client, Mr. Winn, if 15:14:07 he had 15:14:09 happened to be born in the 15:14:11 United States, right, and then 15:14:13 he would have served, you know, 15:14:15 been convicted of the same 15:14:18 offense. Served time in jail. 15:14:19 And then he would have gone out, 15:14:21 right? Society would 15:14:22 have deemed him safe to release 15:14:24 back to the community, right? 15:14:26 And that is -- and so you know 15:14:29 I am always of a little a 15:14:30 little bit puzzled by that 15:14:32 question, right, that for 15:14:33 someone who has gone through 15:14:35 and the criminal legal system 15:14:37 has made decisions and I mean 15:14:39 -- the criminal legal system 15:14:41 has many of its own issues but 15:14:43 those are going to be the same 15:14:46 sort of for folks across sort 15:14:48 of where folks are born and so 15:14:50 I -- I don't really see the 15:14:53 sort of argument that in fact 15:14:55 you know you're sort of saying, 15:14:57 well, we should -- we should 15:14:58 deport American citizens then. 15:15:00 That there is not -- that oh, 15:15:02 they're too dangerous to 15:15:04 release. I think that sort of 15:15:06 question we have clients, right, 15:15:07 we have clients that -- had 15:15:11 we're born too -- 2 months old. 15:15:12 They were born -- happen to be 15:15:15 born in a refugee camp and then 15:15:17 came to the US when they were 15:15:18 2 months old. They had been 15:15:20 born 2 months later. They were 15:15:21 a United States citizen and 15:15:23 then they're not too dangerous 15:15:24 to release and then they're 15:15:25 back home with their families 15:15:27 and not in an immigration 15:15:28 detention center. It is those 15:15:30 kind of differences to me you 15:15:32 know really highlight how -- I 15:15:33 don't think that argument 15:15:36 really sort of hold up. We 15:15:39 have clients where, you know, 15:15:42 their parents became a US 15:15:43 citizen when they were two days 15:15:46 after they turned 18. If that 15:15:47 had been three days earlier 15:15:49 they would have been a US 15:15:51 citizen and then not too 15:15:52 dangerous to release. Those 15:15:53 things don't make sense. They 15:15:56 don't correlate with dangerousness. 15:15:58 Those are some of the reasons I 15:15:59 feel like that doesn't quite 15:16:01 hold up. I think that in terms 15:16:04 of why has detention grown the 15:16:06 way it has? I brought up a 15:16:07 little bit of this. I do think 15:16:11 the profit motive is a massive 15:16:13 factor, you know, because of 15:16:16 the -- I mean really 15:16:17 significant profits like 15:16:19 companies like the GEO group 15:16:21 and used to be the correction 15:16:22 corporation of America and they 15:16:26 rebranded as core civic in a 15:16:28 weirdly heroic kind of way many 15:16:31 I think there is also -- I mean 15:16:33 there are deep connections if 15:16:35 we look at sort of the sort of 15:16:38 expansions in sort of the 15:16:40 racist criminal legal system 15:16:43 and prison growth through sort 15:16:46 of 80s and 90s and sort of, you 15:16:50 know, a lot of the sort of you 15:16:51 know fear mongering that was 15:16:52 happening at that time. There 15:16:55 is a lot of ties there with, 15:16:58 you know, people talk about 96 15:16:59 crime bill and you know those 15:17:01 are the same times as people 15:17:04 are also expanding mandatory 15:17:05 detention for folks in 15:17:07 immigration custody. We also 15:17:10 see a lot of our clients are 15:17:12 also, you know, get targeted 15:17:14 within the criminal legal 15:17:17 system because of the color of 15:17:19 their skin and who they are and 15:17:22 then that ends up impacting 15:17:24 them in the immigration system. 15:17:26 And I think that it is a lot of 15:17:27 different factors but certainly 15:17:29 when you look at sort of what 15:17:32 the timing and where the laws 15:17:34 that have affected the growth 15:17:35 have been, you think a lot of 15:17:37 that has been had been tied 15:17:38 with, you know, a lot of sort 15:17:41 of fear mongering and sort of 15:17:45 racism in the -- in our country 15:17:47 and in -- connected with the 15:17:48 criminal legal system and that 15:17:50 I do think, yeah, big profit 15:17:52 motive as well as really driven 15:17:55 the growth. 15:17:56 » Jorge: Great. Thank you. 15:17:58 We had a few questions that 15:18:00 related to since we're talking 15:18:03 a little bit about this issue 15:18:06 of releasing people that asked 15:18:07 like if we could explain a 15:18:08 little bit like who is eligible 15:18:11 for release. So Lesly, can I 15:18:13 ask you to talk a little bit 15:18:15 about, you know, who can get 15:18:16 released and what are the 15:18:18 barriers for people to get 15:18:19 released from detention these 15:18:21 days that you see? 15:18:25 » Lesly: Yes. So I think the 15:18:28 two -- I tend to see three ways 15:18:32 through ICE through parole 15:18:36 through courts and through bond 15:18:38 and their individual hearing, 15:18:41 their merit hearing. Lately we 15:18:43 had not had a lot of luck with 15:18:45 parole requests. We tend to 15:18:47 try to add as much evidence as 15:18:49 we can as to how they wouldn't 15:18:53 be a flight risk. And how 15:18:53 they 15:18:55 have taxed the community but 15:18:56 they would have a support 15:18:58 system and continue going to 15:18:59 their immigration court 15:19:01 hearings after being released. 15:19:04 And we -- we have not had much 15:19:08 success. I have sent a few and 15:19:10 haven't heard anything positive 15:19:12 back in terms of bond, the 15:19:15 Court tend to look at whether 15:19:16 someone is a danger to the 15:19:18 community and whether someone 15:19:21 is a flight risk. So danger to 15:19:22 the community usually if 15:19:23 someone has a conviction we try 15:19:26 to show, you know, that they 15:19:28 have rethat bill ad or that 15:19:31 they have the support -- rethat 15:19:32 bill ad or have the support to 15:19:34 avoid getting in to trouble 15:19:36 again many similarly with the 15:19:38 flight risk people's ties to 15:19:40 the community matter a lot. 15:19:42 You have seen that with asylum 15:19:45 seekers that don't have 15:19:47 the same ties as someone that 15:19:48 has been here for a long time. 15:19:49 My client that I had had 15:19:52 mentioned earlier from 15:19:53 Venezuela, she had family 15:19:57 members here. Now they're also 15:19:59 seeking asylum but they were 15:20:02 not legal proven residents or 15:20:03 US citizens. That is one of 15:20:05 the issues that the judge found 15:20:07 when he declared that my client 15:20:09 was a flight risk. And, you 15:20:10 know, we appealed that and we 15:20:13 did win the appeal because we 15:20:14 didn't believe that that was 15:20:16 sufficient to progress if 15:20:18 someone was a flight risk. 15:20:19 Especially if they're here 15:20:21 because they're in fear and 15:20:22 they do have that family 15:20:25 support. And then the third 15:20:28 being the meriting words. They 15:20:30 hear -- they present their case. 15:20:33 The judge rules in their favor. 15:20:37 But in term of eligibility, it 15:20:39 all depend on how they were 15:20:41 marked as to whether they were 15:20:44 marked as arriving or whether 15:20:45 they were marked as present for 15:20:48 all sorts of eligibility 15:20:50 concerns and I laugh because 15:20:51 we've had a lot of difficulties 15:20:54 with that lately as to whether 15:20:55 -- first in getting the 15:20:57 document because of COVID. 15:20:59 They're making that even more 15:21:01 difficult. We can't see our 15:21:02 client and then we can't get 15:21:04 the paperwork. But -- for 15:21:07 example, if they're marked as 15:21:08 present then they're eligible 15:21:12 for bond. And then things like 15:21:14 that because of all these 15:21:15 complications it is not always 15:21:17 clear and we have to see the 15:21:19 paperwork. That is one of the 15:21:21 main things about being able to 15:21:22 represented someone is that you 15:21:24 do get access to that paperwork 15:21:26 and you're able to give them 15:21:27 all the forms of relief that 15:21:30 you see available. And I think 15:21:34 Tim can explain more on the 15:21:38 present and Riling matter 15:21:38 . 15:21:40 » Tim: If you're confused, 15:21:42 think about folks who might not 15:21:43 be fluent English who are 15:21:44 trying to navigate this on 15:21:46 their own, right? It is 15:21:48 remarkably confusing. I think 15:21:49 that -- I don't know that 15:21:51 getting to that -- into the 15:21:53 weeds. I think one of the 15:21:54 things that we have actually 15:21:55 been dealing with is we talked 15:21:56 a little bit about what is 15:21:57 happening down at the border 15:22:00 but what had been happening is 15:22:01 for a while is there is this 15:22:02 new policy under this 15:22:04 administration called sort of 15:22:06 remain in Mexico. So they were 15:22:08 rather than accepting asylum 15:22:09 seekers in the United States to 15:22:10 seek safety they were actually 15:22:12 forcing them, take them in and 15:22:14 then force them back to Mexico. 15:22:14 After you wait, right 15:22:15 [ Captions will appear here. On standby. ] 15:22:17 You wait like you were at the DMV 15:22:19 or something. You were at the 15:22:20 -- you get this number. You 15:22:23 wait for months in this 15:22:23 incredible dangerous situation. 15:22:26 The US has sort of forced this 15:22:28 kind of refugee camp kind of 15:22:31 thing down -- you know, 15:22:33 impromptu, it is intense 15:22:34 incredibly dangerous. People 15:22:36 are trying to kidnap them and I 15:22:38 know folks down at the border 15:22:39 who are doing the legal work. 15:22:42 The first thing they do when 15:22:43 meet with people is scan in 15:22:44 their documents. Because they 15:22:46 expect people will kidnapped 15:22:47 and documents will get taken 15:22:50 from them. At least if people 15:22:51 escape from the kidnapping they 15:22:52 can access the evidence they 15:22:54 can use to make their case. 15:22:56 Incredibly dangerous. Folks 15:22:58 then are forced to -- taken to 15:23:00 the United States, detained. 15:23:01 If they pass the first 15:23:02 screening interview by an 15:23:05 asylum officer then they are 15:23:07 are sent back to Mexico where 15:23:08 they do their hearings from 15:23:12 Mexico and so 15:23:12 we have 15:23:13 actually been fighting this 15:23:15 where people are eligible for 15:23:17 bond. The US will detain them. 15:23:19 Return them to Mexico. Pass 15:23:20 interview. Bring them back for 15:23:22 hearings. On their coming back 15:23:23 they change the charging 15:23:24 documents and say, actually, 15:23:26 you're no longer eligible for 15:23:28 bond. Right? Sort of use the 15:23:29 fact that they scented them to 15:23:33 sent them to Mexico co 15:23:36 taking people's eligible for 15:23:37 bond. We continue to fight 15:23:38 that. I hope some day we'll 15:23:40 find success or, you know, 15:23:43 the policy will change, right, 15:23:45 that the policyie at the Dallas 15:23:47 level will end that outrageous 15:23:48 program and we won't have to 15:23:50 deal with that any more. But, 15:23:51 yeah, there are so many issues 15:23:54 and again I hope that while I'm 15:23:55 sure that some of this is very 15:23:57 confusing I hope that sort of 15:23:59 illustrates just sort of how 15:24:00 hard a lot of this is 15:24:02 especially for folks who don't 15:24:04 have representation. 15:24:05 » Jorge: Thank you, Tim, and 15:24:07 Lesly, Lesly, I'm going to come 15:24:10 back to you in a minute how 15:24:12 people can get involved. A 15:24:13 couple of quick questions 15:24:14 people posed. Lesly talked a 15:24:15 little bit about people being 15:24:17 grand bond and you guys talked 15:24:20 about grand bond. It is great 15:24:22 to give grand bond but one of 15:24:24 the problems people have is not 15:24:26 being able to pay it. Even if 15:24:27 you are successful there. So 15:24:29 that is one additional barrier 15:24:30 that we have here locally is 15:24:32 that we have one of the highest 15:24:35 rates of bond in the country. 15:24:37 I think tied for first place in 15:24:41 a bad first place attrition in 15:24:43 this class the average bond 15:24:45 report issued I think last year 15:24:49 was $15,000 and that is unlike 15:24:49 sometimes people are familiar 15:24:51 with the credible justice 15:24:52 system you might be able to pay 15:24:53 a portion of that. You 15:24:54 actually have to pay the full 15:24:56 amount. And then somebody 15:24:57 asked about whether there is an 15:24:59 opportunity to file like habeas 15:25:01 petitions in these kind of 15:25:04 cases. In some situations you 15:25:05 might be able to do that but 15:25:06 that generally comes when 15:25:09 you're talking about like very 15:25:10 prolonged detention. Usually 15:25:12 not early on in the process 15:25:13 there is a lot of barriers and 15:25:15 jurisdictional things the 15:25:18 courts have put in place and 15:25:20 Supreme Court curtailed a lot 15:25:23 of avenues to the detention 15:25:24 through the Federal courts. 15:25:26 Yes that can be done in some 15:25:28 situation sw but it is fairly 15:25:29 limited and we end up with 15:25:30 people being in detention for a 15:25:33 significant period of time. So 15:25:35 Lesly, let me ask you as we 15:25:37 start wrapping up here, you 15:25:40 know, for folks who are 15:25:41 listening and were thinking 15:25:43 okay, how can we help? What 15:25:45 are ways that we can -- you 15:25:48 know, try to address some of 15:25:50 the circumstances that people, 15:25:51 you know -- I want to remind 15:25:52 everybody we have hundreds of 15:25:54 people right now at the 15:25:56 Northwest Detention Center that 15:25:58 shall locked out bind bars 15:26:01 behind bars right 15:26:02 now, what can the community do 15:26:06 for them at this point? 15:26:07 » Lesly: Thank you. One of 15:26:08 the things talking about bond 15:26:10 is donating to 15:26:12 organizing that help pay for 15:26:15 bonds. You know 15:26:17 personally when I had clients I 15:26:19 had reached out to La 15:26:23 Resistencia and aid northwest 15:26:24 bond funds that helped with 15:26:28 that donating items or time to 15:26:32 aid northwest. Donating to us 15:26:35 to expand our cat so we want 15:26:36 represent more people, getting 15:26:38 involved with organizations 15:26:39 like aid northwest or La 15:26:43 Resistencia. Showing your 15:26:45 support through legislation. I 15:26:47 think that is one of the big 15:26:50 ones to dismantle this whole 15:26:52 system that is in place putting 15:26:54 pressure on legislators, voting, 15:26:56 educating yourself about the 15:27:00 system and educating others. 15:27:02 And that's about all I can 15:27:04 think of right now. 15:27:06 » Jorge: Thank you, Lesly. 15:27:09 Yeah, the bond fund that Lesly 15:27:11 was referencing I'm putting the 15:27:13 direct link for folks is the 15:27:15 fair fight bond fund which is 15:27:16 coordinated through the 15:27:17 Washington immigrant solidarity 15:27:19 network and really 15:27:20 important resource for 15:27:23 community members. Tim, any 15:27:24 other additional thoughts you 15:27:25 would like to share on that 15:27:27 question or necessary as we get 15:27:30 ready to wrap up? 15:27:32 » Tim: I think Lesly raised 15:27:34 most or a bunch of really 15:27:36 good ideas. There is a lot of 15:27:37 great organizations locally. I 15:27:39 think that, you know, and she 15:27:40 mentioned, you know, sort of 15:27:42 how to get involved I think at 15:27:43 a policy level. I think that 15:27:45 there is a really important 15:27:47 role that we all can play in 15:27:50 influencing our elected 15:27:52 officials. I think both sort 15:27:54 of locally rights actually just 15:27:58 -- just this week the Tacoma 15:27:59 City Council passed a 15:28:00 resolution sort of calling for 15:28:02 release of folks from the 15:28:03 detention center in light of 15:28:05 the pandemic. I think 15:28:07 continuing to make sure that 15:28:09 local governments stay involved 15:28:11 and are doing their part to 15:28:12 push. I think there is a role 15:28:16 to play at the state level as 15:28:19 well. There are policies -- 15:28:21 there was actually a bill last 15:28:24 session around ending private 15:28:28 detention. They were pushed to 15:28:29 -- we talked about New York 15:28:30 where they fully fund 15:28:32 representation for New Yorkers 15:28:34 who end up in detention, right, 15:28:37 there could be full funding for 15:28:39 Washingtonias. There is some 15:28:40 support but not all the way 15:28:42 there. And then at the 15:28:44 national level, right? We talk 15:28:45 about local but these are 15:28:47 Federal laws, right? And so 15:28:49 the biggest change is certainly 15:28:51 can come from the Federal level. 15:28:53 I think that realistically 15:28:55 these days that is a little 15:28:57 harder to imagine. But there 15:28:59 still are important pleases and 15:29:00 actually we brought up a little 15:29:02 -- the funding, right, that 15:29:04 still happens, right? Congress, 15:29:07 you know, has a hard 15:29:08 time doing some thing. Many 15:29:10 things maybe. But it does pass 15:29:12 budgets and so really making 15:29:15 sure that you're letting your 15:29:17 elected Federal representatives 15:29:19 and Senators know where your 15:29:21 priorities lie in terms of fund. 15:29:22 We have here in Washington, 15:29:25 right, Senator Murray is on the 15:29:28 appropriations. Senator ways 15:29:31 and means. There are important 15:29:33 players in the Washington 15:29:35 delegation in terms of the 15:29:38 budget and you know while you 15:29:39 may sort of assume that of 15:29:40 course they believe in these 15:29:42 things, right? I think when 15:29:43 you get down to the details of 15:29:45 what the funding levels are, 15:29:48 how important does that become 15:29:49 in the negotiations that are 15:29:50 the budget process, you know, 15:29:53 the more that folks let their 15:29:54 -- let their feelings be known 15:29:56 to their elected officials that 15:29:57 really does make a difference. 15:29:59 Even if there is not a vote 15:30:00 that you're going to see or a 15:30:01 new law, right, that budget 15:30:04 process happens 15:30:06 and you can play a role and 15:30:08 influence how big does our 15:30:09 detention system keep growing 15:30:11 or can we start pushing to end 15:30:14 it. So just a few other ways 15:30:16 to get involved. 15:30:17 » Jorge: Thank you, Tim. 15:30:19 Just as we close, one thing I 15:30:22 want to clarify, we mentioned 15:30:24 our colleagues at aid northwest. 15:30:27 Just to clarify, aid northwest 15:30:28 doesn't run the bond fund. 15:30:30 That is done through Washington 15:30:32 solidarity network. But 15:30:34 northwest does help with phone, 15:30:38 to help people in detention be 15:30:40 able pay for phone calls. We 15:30:41 appreciate the work that 15:30:42 they're doing as well. I 15:30:43 wanted to clarify that. And 15:30:45 there is one question very 15:30:47 quickly just to address 15:30:48 something that Tim said about 15:30:49 work at the state level and 15:30:52 what authorities the state has 15:30:54 and efforts and other states 15:30:56 including California to try to 15:30:58 prohibit this kind of private 15:30:59 imgation detention center. 15:31:00 That is correct. There is a 15:31:03 law now that will go into 15:31:05 affect in the future. There is 15:31:07 some litigation pending against 15:31:09 that. So you know there may be 15:31:11 some issues that have to go up 15:31:12 to the courts regarding that. 15:31:14 There have been efforts here in 15:31:16 Washington State and I suspect 15:31:17 that will happen again at the 15:31:19 next legislative session. 15:31:21 Please stay, you know, in tune 15:31:23 for that that -- tuned to the 15:31:24 issues and we'll definitely be 15:31:26 sharing information as efforts 15:31:27 at the local level develop 15:31:30 because we do think that the 15:31:32 state does have authority to 15:31:34 regulate immigration -- 15:31:35 detention when it is being done 15:31:37 by private entities at least. 15:31:38 You think it would be a 15:31:39 different situation if this was 15:31:42 an ICE run operated facility. 15:31:44 As we talked about, this is a 15:31:46 private company operating here 15:31:48 locally. So we -- we 15:31:51 could probably -- I know Lesly, 15:31:52 Tim and I could talk for hours 15:31:54 about this but we want to be 15:31:56 respectful of people's times. 15:31:56 We e really appreciated the 15:31:58 time you spent with us. We'll 15:32:00 continue having these 15:32:01 conversations and engagements.